I have decided to share a message which I recently sent to the moderators (so-called "gorts", a self-appointed title) of the Steve Hoffman Music Forums (SHMF), in addition to a longer piece of text that I feel must be shared more broadly. Recent experiences on SHMF, particularly with its moderation policies, have led to deep frustration and disappointment from myself and several others. Having participated in SHMF for over a decade, I write the below text not only with those feelings in mind, but also one of sadness, as such broken opportunities are seldom repaired. Nonetheless, like the phoenix, I maintain my voice on a new platform, where speech freedoms are not suppressed for commercial gain.
Message sent 23 August 2024 at 18:53 GMT
Recipients: Steve Hoffman, bkgMusic, darkmatter, DLant, hodgo, Ken_McAlinden, MLutthans, Peter_R, stereoptic
Dear Moderator(s),
As a legal resident of the European Union, I am exercising my right under Article 17 of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) to request the immediate and permanent deletion of all my personal data stored on the Steve Hoffman Music Forums (SHMF) servers. This request includes, but is not limited to:
- all posts on the forums or message boards,
- all responses to these posts, which can reasonably be linked to me and/or contain my duplicated content,
- all interactions with the forums or message boards, including likes and comments,
- all sent and received messages through the inbox / "Conversations" functionality,
- all threads created and replies to those threads,
- all location, geolocation, and date/timestamp data,
- all personally identifying information, including name, date of birth, contact details such as phone and email, and other private data,
- all connections to external accounts and third parties, and any shared data with those parties,
- all information shared with affiliates of SHMF, including XenForo, Ltd.
Additionally, I request that my account be immediately and irreversibly closed.
I want to take this opportunity to express my disappointment with some aspects of the forum's moderation policies. Over the last few years, I have noticed instances where critical posts, particularly those involving certain audio engineers, have been removed without sufficient explanation or reasonable justification. This has led me to question the objectivity of the moderation process and the overall integrity of the forum.
While I once valued SHMF as a reliable source of information, I now feel that the forum's current practices undermine its credibility and discourage open, honest discussion. I hope this will be taken into consideration to improve the experience for other users.
Thank you for your prompt attention to my GDPR request.
Sincerely,
"ThePoodleBites"
Apart from the request above, I feel compelled to candidly express my specific concerns with a broader audience. While the
tone of the message below is strong, it reflects my genuine feelings about the
way SHMF is being run. I believe transparency and open discussion
are crucial, especially in online communities that are meant to foster
honest dialogue. Please note that the following content is my personal
opinion and is based on my own experiences.
Disclaimer: This post contains strong language and critical opinions regarding the moderation practices of SHMF. It is not intended to defame or harm any individuals or entities mentioned but to highlight my concerns as a former user of the forum. The content of this post is shared for the purpose of transparency and discussion. Readers are encouraged to form their own opinions and engage respectfully in any dialogue that may arise from this post.
Dear gort-esque individual(s):
I used to view SHMF as a highly useful source of information, generously supplied by users all over the globe, providing a just means to judge music releases on their merits and make well-informed decisions on how to spend hard-earned money. Unfortunately, I have come to realize that this view was naïve. Over the past years, I have seen several posts, which happened to be critical of certain audio engineers, arbitrarily removed for irrelevant or nonexistent reasons. This has been documented on other forums [1, 2]. "Industry sensitive" posts are swiftly deleted from SHMF, usually without alert or justification. Entire threads are routinely trashed when it is revealed by SHMF users that particular engineers made some gaffe, even when minor. Rather than supplying a useful service to SHMF users, this arbitrary moderation of SHMF more strongly promotes cronyism as a benefit to the elder subclass of music purveyors.
Users of SHMF who post criticisms of particular releases, especially those linked to certain record labels or individuals, risk internal labeling by SHMF as a degenerate user, with future posts thus requiring hand-approval by a moderator, easing the uptick in discretionary deletions. Dispute of public opinion violates the unwritten purposes of SHMF; certain facts are unacceptable,
because SHMF costs money to run, and it can only be profitable by providing advertising revenue
via product placement to an elite class of senior,
uber-willing customers, where objective
dissidents are quickly and easily silenced, and by brainwashing those customers into supporting the parasitic platform which feeds off content they themselves create. Non-compliance with a set of arbitrary guidelines is randomly referenced for this purpose. Threads are deleted for both subjective and facts-based criticisms of certain engineers. For example, when a well-known engineer publicly
critiqued Kevin Gray on certain Analogue Productions reissues, or when a forum-associated record label was revealed to be using an old 1980s CD as audio source for an SACD remaster, the information was quickly wiped from public view. This is consistently done without providing notice or just reason to the user base, contributors, or readers.
A small group of senior engineers are uniquely promoted in part by using euphemisms such as "our host" instead of names, which subconsciously encourages idolization and raises aging audio workers on a pedestal of self-appointed worship. There is a scientifically well-documented connection between age and high-frequency hearing loss [3, 4], which is especially relevant to many of the discussions on SHMF, yet comments to this effect are deleted by moderators without justification, as they not only criticize this exclusive clique of engineers, but the moderators they appointed as well. While there is no such scientific evidence linking the value of speaker cables and interconnects to the sound of an audio system, posts discussing sound quality without publicly sharing this information are in violation of SHMF policies [5] and are discreetly deleted at "moderator discretion." This not only provides an unjustifiable means for senior users to critique junior ones, but is biased by a selection of posts which contain unflattering information: those viewed as disruptive from the capitalistically profitable content of shipping updates and unquestioning god-like praise.
Object cronyism as a means for increasing invisible ad revenue and user donations, while simultaneously masquerading as an unbiased public forum, is deceptive, provides nothing but an illusion of credibility, biases users with half-truths and distorted information, scams readers out of their money, and in an ideal world would be outright illegal. I refuse to continue participating in an ever-growing circle-jerk of seniors unable to hear above 12 kHz partaking in a massively-deceptive pyramid scheme while refereeing opinions on, yet unable to hear what, their oh-so-expensive equipment is literally screaming at them. SHMF is an out-of-control, over-moderated disgrace to a community of listeners and music lovers, and I strongly dissent from its existence.
Sincerest regards,
"ThePoodleBites"
[1] https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/68067-mastering-error-by-vic-anesini-iconoclassic-records/
[2] https://microdynamiks.blogspot.com/2015/07/chapter-8-how-hoffman-invited-and-then.html
[3] ISO 7029 (2017)
[4] Hearing Balance Commun. 16.2 (2018) 74–82
[5] https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/pages/forum-policies/
Well done. I left their forums because of their oppressive approach, censorship and rampant bullying. I was tired of Hoffmans sycophants treating him like a god and saying how wonderful his work was. In my experience Hoffmans production work is vast overrated and inferior to the original analogue vinyl.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. I agree. While I have no problem giving credit where it's due, the assumption that every Hoffman, Anesini, Grundman, Bellman, etc mastering is the best-ever-and-always is senseless. The reason old analog LPs sound so great is not because they were mastered by a 70-year-old man with a record label; it's because they were mastered by a 20-something nobody with full-spectrum hearing and the energy to turn something good into something great. Continually worshiping these ancient engineers prevents those newcomers from getting their shot.
DeleteI used to be a regular there and I agree about the bullying and constant ass kissing, I mean some of those guys give brown nosing a whole new meaning. Even funnier is that Guffman hasn't mastered anything in years, probably since Universal bought Capitol and we all know the story and they still gush over him.
DeletePoodle
"a forum-associated record label was revealed to be using an old 1980s CD as audio source for an SACD remaster".
Let me guess.....
One of the AP Steely Dan releases (Aja).
What was it?
Unfortunately the Hoffman forum has , over the years, become nothing more than a place to fawn over the "local hero" and all those deemed worthy.
ReplyDeleteI may not be playing music over $80,000 audio equipment, but you don't need an excessively overpriced sound system to hear mastering quality (especially when you have the variation of release on hand to do so). I remember being ridiculed over the various "Who's Next" CD releases when I just said that "to my ears" the Glenn Meadows remaster of Glyn Johns original mix that MCA released as Ultimate Masterdisc seemed to stay true yet improved the overall sound. The reaction was not one of open forum discussion but more of "why are you even on this forum".
I also got aggravated over time when I noticed how they also got into lock step with record industry rhetoric (vinyl re-revolution , and so forth).
I've also seen engineers and producers badgered by the forum "experts" over the work they've done without knowing about recording sources and the imitation of the master, etc. Forum dwellers seem to think they are the final word on everything.
After a while I just got fed up with the silliness and, quite honestly, I can't remember when the last time I even visited the site.
I just don't need know-it-alls to tell me how to hear what I hear.
Thanks for sharing your experience here, and kudos for making your voice heard amongst the elitists.
DeleteI don't blame you for leaving SHF. It's so lame that they deleted your posts, as if they're the proverbial gatekeepers as to what is acceptable as good sound and what is/is not to be questioned WRT certain engineers etc. What a joke. When I was a teenager, I used to send in these 'sound offs' to the local newspaper. It was just sort of fun because they would actually publish them and I got to sort of 'rant' and get things off my chest. The beginnings of the 'rants' you'd see at the end of each of of my print zines in a way. Anyway, eventually they started editing what I wrote, cutting sections of what I sent it out and printing something different than what I sent in. At that point, I was like ok I'm out. I don't want my words censored or misprinted, so I'll write myself and present it unedited and uncut. On another note, all these 'remaster' and various reissues are getting a bit out of hand. Just cash-grab opportunities and repackaging material that you can get in as good or often better quality with a little research.. Many times, yes, on one of those old cd's from the 80's! I wouldn't put it past some of these corporate scumbags to just use an old 80's cd and repackage it as a 'remaster' and put it out on RSD or something.. Anyway, I digress... Good on you for putting up the middle finger to the self-anointed gatekeepers over at SHF.
ReplyDeleteThanks for sharing this. It all turned out well, I suppose, as we across the globe now get to enjoy your unedited/uncut 'zine.
DeleteHoffman is an industry pariah who was terminated by Universal for theft and hasn't been allowed near a master tape in 10 years. Who cares what he thinks? Just delete this thread and move on.
DeleteWow, are you all just finding this out now?
ReplyDeletelol...
I gave up on that forum over 10 years ago. They were full of jerks then, they're full of jerks now. I just go there to occasionally research something and that's it.
Also back then, I think SH himself was using an anonymous account and calling himself something else. Why use an anonymous account on your own blog? Why pretend and play games like that? It's really silly crap.
Steve Hoffman is entitled. Not only is he genius, he is also the kindest man I have ever met.
DeleteSure he's entitled. It's his blog. And I'm also entitled to call him out on it.
DeleteTo be clear, John, I make no comment/critique about Steve as a person or an engineer here; my problem is with how SHMF is run.
DeleteJohn Oteri answers to nobody.
DeleteJohn Oteri answered here, so that's not true.
Deletelol yes john oteri
Deletehttps://stereocentral.freeforums.net/thread/38/john-oteri-revisited
I must say that I am disappointed by ‘thepoodlebites’ recent meltdown and departure. I think he had real potential to become a true Hoffmanite. Yes, he may have been critical of Our Host in his posts but his taste as an audiophile very much reflects that he was (and is) in actuality a follower of Hoffman’s mastering philosophy: i.e. unfutzed sound, crankable sound stage, full dynamic range, etc. So, I had high hopes for this young man that he would continue the fine trend that Steve Hoffman has started in the future.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I think he has been very disrespectful to our community. Steve Hoffman is a respected industry icon, possibly the only mastering engineer who has never compromised his vision to the demands of the industry. He should be commended for that, along with his wife who has always supported him in this endeavor (rather than demanding he sold himself out and borrow his talent to less prolific projects). We, The Gorts, are a team of volunteers who are happy to assist Steve in his quest. Is everything we do perfect? No, obviously. But we always try our best to find fair middle ground and please as many as we can.
Note that the subject of my message is not Steve but his "Gorts".
Delete"Hoffmanite"? "his quest"? He's an old guy with a tape machine, not a cult leader.
Are you a "Gort" or a "Troll"?
Total fantasy about Hoffman and his work. I said earlier, his work is inferior to first analogue pressings. A totally overrated engineer with a gaggle of unquestioning acolytes.
DeleteThat has to be one of the most patronizing descriptions of SH, yet. Talk about kissing ass.
DeleteA cultist, superior attitude like that gets you nowhere.
But honest. Something thats an anathema on the hoffman forums. The reason I gave up. Enough said
Delete@Anonymous commentator(s) -- please assign yourself(ves) a handle so we can follow who is saying what here, which is currently impossible. Remember, as your Dearest Lord Poodle, I reserve the right to invent an arbitrary set of rules and start deleting comments, or to brainwash a legion of hippie 'heads to carry out my bidding.
DeleteGort Jerry has drunk too much Kool-Aid. It's coming out his ears.
Delete"Gorts" & "Hoffmaites" .... Do these cats have secret hand shakes, club jackets, and weird initiations ? Hey, I agree that Steve Hoffman is an OK guy that's done a lot of good work but that has nothing to do with a forum. This "revered deity" nonsense is nothing more than mob mentality.
ReplyDeletequote:
"Groucho Marx is famously quoted as saying, “I don’t want to belong to any club that would accept me as one of its members”. This quote reflects his disdain for the exclusivity and conformity often associated with various clubs and organizations".
This may be very Ann Rand like but ... what can I tell ya.
The Hoffman forum is dominated by sock puppets and inside trolls designed to drive anyone with criticisms or technical knowledge crazy in order to guide everyone else who foolishly believes that it's a free discussion forum into a groupthink mentality, and the Gorts are in on it. Look at the self-appointed experts for any given artist who clearly have free reign to be obnoxious and abusive at a level far beyond what would get any normal poster banned immediately. Or the welcome bullying and mind games that regularly goes on in Beatles threads when someone dares have a negative opinion of a new release or remix. Anyone who complains about them being mere "Hoffman worshippers" or "snooty audiophiles" (if anything, the opposite is true) is just as complicit in missing the big picture entirely.
DeleteLiterally laughing at what Gort Jerry had to say. Here is a good site to have some laughs at Hoofman and the many morons at SHF.
ReplyDeletehttps://stereocentral.freeforums.net/
Wow. I was afraid that my post might be too strongly worded, but my words are well-mannered compared to these guys. No holding back there.
DeleteThe idea that Hoof is respected by the industry is the most laughable part of Gorf Jerry's post. There are some posters on Hoof's forum who are great, the Grateful Thread is pretty free of drama, but anyone with any sense knows Steve is a huge fraud. Consider his annual 'fundraiser' lololol
DeleteForums and social media today are an exercise in Groupthink. Dangerous stuff where unpopular opinions are squashed, and posters are attacked.
ReplyDeleteYeah but I don't let shit like that deter me. Sometimes it's just better to be banned than live their lie.
DeleteThere are so many lurking disasters from fake accounts and AI-generated content in public fora: what would happen if a popular music forum generated 100 fake accounts who randomly posted AI-trained content with unquestioning praise? Whereas any "real" posts are closely moderated, and any critique swiftly eliminated? It's perfect advertising: it's effective, it's very cheap, and it should be illegal. But politicians who used an abacus instead of a computer in grade-school are not capable of making rational regulation for these modern issues, so misinformation, conspiracies, and scams prosper.
DeleteOh I don't think he's a "total fraud". He's done some good work in the past. But I do think he's overrated and having a slavering fanboy cult behind him does nothing for his reputation. It makes him look like a total ass, imo...
ReplyDeleteNicely said, Poodle! I have to say, the one time I really stuck up for mono mixes of some Beatles records, I was summarily crapped on by several Gorts, and not just a little bit. In fact, I felt like I'd been buried for my variant opinion. All I ever said in my posts was that I liked the mono mixes better than the stereo mixes for all the usual reasons, and shazam, you'd swear I'd uttered pure blasphemy. So I tend not to visit the SHMF too often anymore.
ReplyDeletePlus it always struck me as odd that the Steve Hoffman seems to have personally mastered, or psychically counseled with the mastering engineers of, every single record that has ever been made. So the Hoffmanites would have us believe anyhow. I began to wonder how the guy could actually be in two places at once (when he wasn't really anywhere at all)?
People who criticize the Hoffman Forum and the Gorts, who have immaculate intentions and do everything they can to keep discussion fair and balanced, simply don't like Giles Martin. That's all there is to it. He keeps it real. The jealous personal attacks on his perfect record only make him stronger. And by the way, Gordon does NOT work for Experience Hendrix. That is a total fabrication. He has carte blanche to attack forum members and post non-stop misinformation because his enormous member scrapes the ground when he walks. That is a fact. Get over it, people. And one last thought - be sure to fill out your equipment profiles so you can be gaslighted more effectively. Peace out, and see you at the Buddy Holly Tribute.
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/vqzW0FJxpqo&t=404
DeleteGiles Martin rescued some songs about pot that The Beatles badly recorded a long time ago. There is also a 30-second failed attempt at a backing track on the bonus disc. Buy it now and praise the sound or your post will be deleted. Those Grammys are piling up for a reason.
DeleteDear ThePoodleBites,
ReplyDeleteFirst, I'd like to say how much I appreciate your work.
Never have I seen/heard such a high quality of vinyl releases and I can say I loaded and listened to a lot amongst wich some were great.
Knowing how nice a gentleman you are, it is surprising to see the moderators react this way, unless they have (weird) reasons to.
A wise man said once: "Dogs bark the caravan keeps going."
Please keep up the good work.
Sincerely yours.
M.C.
Belgium
A little more comment.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have listened to as a ((re)mastering) work of Mr Hoffman was good to my obviously old ears in a middle-fi system.
It seems to me the problem here is not over Mr. Hoffman('s work) but the way his forum's moderators behave.
Congratulations tor M. ThePoodleBytes, shame on whoever slanders.
M.C.
Belgium
The "problem" is that people are wasting time speculating about what the problem is. The bottom line: that forum is a farce and a misrepresentation with ulterior motives, so to argue about details like gort behavior and Hoffman's work, to accuse people of slander or to take the high road by pointing out that there is some good information to be found there is just as dumb as being a Hoffman sycophant. These are distracting and manipulative aspects of a much bigger picture that isn't being seen. Politics work much the same way. And to consider any of these things a surprise is naïve since there is a lot of history and information to be found about how "real" professionals want to nothing to do with that place and snicker in secret, and have been treated poorly and even threatened with legal action for talking out of turn. It's a highly controlled Orwellian environment, so to expect to learn anything useful and to give anyone involved the benefit of the doubt is a fool's game.
ReplyDeleteHello,
ReplyDeleteI used to be a regular at the SHMF for ages but I don't bother with it anymore. The last straw was getting attacked by a bunch of Zappa fanboys/trolls because I mentioned that went to the show at the Sunrise in 1984, the next thing I know I'm getting attacked on all corners (where's the gorts?), one moment I'm describing the show, the next moment it's a 8 on 1 brawl. Besides that, posts are getting taken down, Guffie answering posts in a condescending tone to members who ask simple questions, that alone shows his arrogance. We all know that he hasn't got any work since Universal bought Capitol. It first it was a bunch of people who were music lovers who wanted the best sounding version of a particular album, now it's just a bunch of entitled rich boys bitching about the sound on their $130 Steely Dan albums.
But the irony is that they'll also bully and troll anyone who criticizes bad audio work because it's their favorite band. And there are also fake experts who work for the artists or labels and deliberately misinform. And the gorts are far more likely to punish anyone who reacts to it, because it's business. A great place for information, yeah right.
DeleteLike I mentioned earlier "the posters/posers all brown nose a guy who hasn't done anything almost 10 years since AF went bust due to poor QC and Universal owning Capitol and all the associated labels like Blue Note and we all know the story about Guffy and Universal. Speaking of trolls, whenever someone would start a Monkees thread, a thread of some semi forgotten 60's band, or that umpteenth Beatles thread, if a thread stays up for a few days, watch the trolls and hipsters come in and then turns into absolute chaos. There was one thread about "the worst songs the Monkees recorded" that ended with the tread being hijacked by trolls and hipsters where a gort had to shut it down. That was brutal.
Delete